Season 2 Episode 05 Podcast Transcript

Interview with Chandra Robinson and Pamela Kislak

Episode Title: From Inspired to Inspiring: Behind-the Scenes of the DFSJ Sponsors

Host: Grace Aaraj
Audio Engineer and Editor: Mary Anne Funk

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Grace Aaraj: Welcome to Design For Spatial Justice Podcast Series launched by the University of Oregon’s School of Architecture and Environment. 2020 changed the way we live and how we connect with one another. This season, we recorded episodes from our offices, home offices and living rooms, sometimes surrounded by a baby born mid August 2020. She is mine and her name is Joy.

Through our remote discussions among colleagues and friends, we are bringing you insights from design for spatial justice fellows who taught on campus or remotely from other parts of the world, and from sponsors who made the design for spatial Justice initiative possible.

We are talking to you from and about Beirut, Oregon, California, Michigan, Namibia and Sudan. Our spatial justice realities and concerns could be your own as well. With each episode of the podcast, you are brought a little closer to understanding spatial justice and how it is practiced and taught.

Episodes were prepared with hope, pride, but also frustration by the injustices we are surrounded with. This is Grace Aaraj Design For Spatial Justice Fellow 2020 and 2021 and for the upcoming episodes, I am excited to be your host.

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Grace Aaraj: Today in this episode of the podcast, we have with us two guests from Lever Architecture who is actually one of the sponsors of the Design For Spatial Justice Initiative at the University of Oregon. We have with us, Chandra Robinson. Chandra has 12 years of experience creating beautiful spaces that are accessible for all. She serves on the Portland Design Commission and, prior to joining Lever, led the construction of the largest mass timber building in the US. Chandra received a MR. from the Boston architectural center, and the BS from Portland State University.

Grace Aaraj: We have also Pamela Kislak who is responsible for the operations of Lever Architecture. Prior to joining the firm, she spent 20 years leading marketing strategy and operations for growing companies. Pamela holds an MBA from the Haas school at the University of California, Berkeley, and a BA from Dartmouth College.

Grace Aaraj: Chandra, can you tell us about the company and the reason that Lever became one of the sponsors of Design For Spatial Justice Initiative at the University of Oregon?

Chandra Robinson: Lever Architecture is about a 35 person firm here in Portland, Oregon. We’ve been around for about 11 years. Projects that we like to do are ones that really serve a mission. We work really closely with programs like Your Street Your Voice and EmpowHER at Camp Elso. And, those are to really work with young people and talk about design for social justice, and really have them look at their neighborhoods critically and think about what’s missing in those neighborhoods. And, really imagine a better place and what that would mean. The Spatial Justice Program helps people look differently at spaces and helps bring in other voices that I think are really important for people to understand who actually is in Portland and who’s doing the work, because we are all here, but we’re not all as visible as we could be. Here in Oregon, if you look at the AIA list of members, there are two women and two men who are listed as black architects. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t many other designers of color. There are many black designers who just are not AIA members or who haven’t been licensed yet. So we’re out there but it’s a matter of visibility.

Grace Aaraj: I think that’s very interesting. You mentioned having very few people who are people of color. Growing up and becoming the architect that you are today, and one who is contributing to spatial justice, whether in supporting initiatives or working on affordable housing, who do you think are people or events who are influential to you?

Chandra Robinson: It wasn’t a specific event, or a specific person that inspired me, but it was really all these years of working, where I can think about space, and how it makes people feel about new building technologies, about, impacting the communities that I came from.

Chandra Robinson: When I was 30, I went back to graduate school for architecture to study. I thought a lot about spaces that I had lived in. I’d grown up living in affordable housing and just thinking about: wouldn’t it be great if I got to design affordable housing, and I could make some changes to the things that I didn’t think worked well. How can I make spaces better for people who are struggling? That was really important to me, so they weren’t so much events, it’s just reflections after learning a bit about architecture and how I felt about spaces I had been in, and really thinking about how I might go about changing those.

Grace Aaraj: Pamela, what’s something that people seem to misunderstand about your field?

Pamela Kislak: I think people don’t understand the complexity of architecture, and the time it takes to create amazing architecture. I think everybody lives within the built environment, but they don’t really see the impact or the possibility of it. I think being a non-architect, I didn’t understand that in the beginning. It’s such a collaborative field, and there’s so many aspects of it so you need to be both creative and highly analytic. To get both of those things done are sort of different sides of the brain. And I think people just think that I live in a building, therefore, it should be easy to do, because I’ve been in an office, I live in a house. But they just don’t understand the immense amount of education and thought that goes into every single decision and analysis that goes into every decision.

Grace Aaraj: This question is for both of you, how does your regular day go by specifically now with the pandemic, the lock downs? Is it any different now? Is your work affected?

Pamela Kislak: I can jump in here. It makes me think about space very differently. From my perspective, when I think about space, I think about noise, first and foremost, right? We’re all on zoom. And so noise is a big thing. What’s the ambient noise? It’s not about light, or collaboration, or all of those things that we think about in the beginning when we originally designed buildings. And I think from an operational perspective, our days are just so much more scheduled than they used to be.

Chandra Robinson: Like Pamela said: our days are much more scheduled than they used to be. Everything has to be a scheduled meeting in order to communicate and collaborate. That can feel overwhelming. I put a lot of tasks on my calendar, like things that I need to get done, and I block time out for those. So that I can try to focus and not have a meeting during that time, and I can actually get something done. So I find that is necessary to do. I have found that I’ve been able to be very productive to have this quiet space at home, to be able to, get coffee, come back, just walk a few feet from my desk and sit right back down. What I am missing, or what is overwhelming me right now is that every communication is on zoom, or it’s an email, or it’s a chat, or it’s a text or it’s a phone call. But you always have to do something in order to communicate, I can’t just lean over and say, Hey, Pamela, can you tell me about this contract or something.

Pamela Kislak: I feel exactly the way Chandra does. Space is built for the whole person, right? It’s not just built for productivity. There’s an incredibly collaborative space where we all learn from each other and share ideas. We pin everything up on a wall so you can be walking by and not be on a team and see something and be like oh my gosh I don’t like x, and I have this great idea. Where if we’re having a team meeting, it happens in an open space so that a junior person can hear what’s happening. And none of that happens anymore. I think we’re looking forward to creating spaces where we make that intentional in a way that, that maybe we weren’t as intentional before, either. It just sort of was part of our culture. And how do you design spaces for that, because people are used to doing things very differently now than they were a year and a half ago.

Grace Aaraj: I think part of it is also related to spatial justice, right? Do you have a good internet connection? Do you have kids you need to take care of a family member? Do you have support in that? Are you living off a very busy streets or not? Add to that all the factors that you mentioned. I think that’s very interesting about how our homes that we usually used to think about as something personal that’s not connected to work. I know that for myself, whenever I have someone helping with my baby, it’s easier to focus on work. What’s not the case, that becomes more challenging. And from a spatial point of view, I do have that extra room that serves as an office, but the situation is affected by my family situation, not by the space or area of my house.

Pamela Kislak: And I’m a working mom. I am much more comfortable saying “excuse me, I need to do X with my child” than I was before the pandemic, because we’ve become more transparent and more respectful. I hope, or at least I know, Lever has. But I hope everyone has been by having a little more personal insight and so that there is potentially an opportunity here to understand what people are. You’re not just showing up at work; you can be a little bit more your authentic self, because we’ve been forced to share that.

Chandra Robinson: I think, I think that’s so true. That is a really good point. I recognize that everyone has a different home situation, I think it’s made us have a little bit more grace with one another, which I think is so necessary. Everyone’s going through a lot of things right now and a lot of transitions and we just need to be that way. And so I think it’s going to be sort of celebratory, maybe in some ways when we come back together, like maybe we will feel a little bit closer and be appreciative that we get to spend time in person together even if it’s not a full day.

Grace Aaraj: And speaking of that small celebration, you’re going to have one go back to the office. What’s your favorite music?

Chandra Robinson: So lately, I’ve been listening to a lot of Elvis Costello. I have a wide range of music that I really like to listen to. But Elvis Costello right now is really fun, because it’s sort of poppy, and upbeat.

Chandra Robinson: When I’m focusing at work, I mostly like to listen to things that I’ve heard a lot of times before, because it’s easy for me to focus if I’m not concentrating on, oh, what did they say, what were those lyrics? I’m like, “oh, I really love this part of the song”, I get really distracted with that. And so when I’m working, I always listen to things that I’ve heard a million times. I can get into just like a really good groove of getting a lot of things done. I find that to be really helpful working from home to be able to have that ambient sound going.

Pamela Kislak: I don’t listen to music when I work. It drives me crazy, because I love listening to music, so I just have to be quiet. I also grew up in a household where that was forbidden. If you were doing work, you were not allowed to listen to music. And although my parents loved music, that was just how we were taught to focus. So I can’t listen to music when I’m working. The music that I’m loving right now, I call it sunny Sunday morning music, whatever, women folk singer music. It’s really calming. And I think that emotionally feels like a really great music to listen to. But again, it’s not something that I do when working. It’s sort of what you do at the end of the day, or when you’re making a cup of coffee before you get to work.

Chandra Robinson: Because we don’t really have those transitions, we don’t commute into work and take the time to drive there and then get coffee and sit down. It’s just, you know, I get out of bed. And then I walk into the living room and I’m like, well, I guess I will put on the water for coffee and sit down at my desk. So that is nice if you save the music for after work or before work, you can create those kind of transitions for yourself, it’s a nice idea.

Grace Aaraj: Chandra, you mentioned coffee time in office and Pamela, you mentioned offices not only being tailored towards productivity, because you know, human connections need to happen. So when I think of human connections, I always think about foods. And that’s why I wanted to ask both of you what’s your favorite food? But you have to know that when you mentioned your favorite food, you need to share the recipe.

Chandra Robinson: I must admit that I’m not much of a cook. So recipes I definitely don’t go for, but you know what my favorite food because I always ate it a lot as a kid is beans and rice and corn tortillas. Those are my favorite. And, lots of salsa. Like I eat it many days of the week just because it’s delicious and comforting and it’s not fancy and I can make it because I’m not a good cook. But I can make beans and rice.

Pamela Kislak: During the pandemic, I have a 15 year old daughter, and she decided to become a vegetarian. It’s been really an exciting journey. So right now our favorite, I guess it’s not a specific food but we have a favorite blog called Cookie and Kate and we live in Oregon where especially this time of year, the food that you can get it at a farmer’s market or out of your garden is super good.

Grace Aaraj: So speaking of positive things, (and that might be a question where you need to really rely on your memory). But what do you think is the best compliment you have ever received?

Chandra Robinson: I have received a compliment that I am a good listener. And I really appreciate that. It’s important that we listen and listen well. If we are listening really carefully to the people who are going to use the space, that really is an opportunity for us to change how we think about space and how it’s going to work specifically for them and their program and the way they live their lives or the way they do their work. And to be open to that. So I think that being a good listener is really important.

Pamela Kislak: The compliment I’m most proud of is when someone said that I was able to hear multiple perspectives and bring them together, clearly. It’s a different way of listening, but it’s taking listening it and then outputting it in a way that people can hear that and feel respected by that output. I think that’s one of the hardest things is for me to feel comfortable with is that not only have I heard somebody, but that I can repeat back what they said in a way that they feel heard.

Grace Aaraj: Yeah, okay, beautiful. In this question, I’m going to mention keywords for you and you’re going to tell me the first few things that come in your mind, maybe in one or two words. One time by defining it by saying is, and one time by saying what it isn’t. So the first topic that I want to discuss is a good book is: a good book isn’t?

Pamela Kislak: A good book is engrossing and captivating, transports you from where you are in your life. A good book isn’t a specific genre.

Chandra Robinson: A good book is specific to a person and really enriches them in a specific way And I think a good book isn’t the same book for everyone. Right now people are reading about how to be an anti racist or the history of all the horrible things that the black community has been subjected to all in these books, but I cannot read those. That is traumatizing for me. And it’s a book for someone else that will do them a lot of good and they will learn a lot of things that they have not known. But for me, it’s not something that I can spend time reading, because I will feel terrible for a really long time.

Grace Aaraj: That’s a very interesting perspective, Chandra

Grace Aaraj: I have one last question, which is, practicing locally is, and practicing locally isn’t?

Chandra Robinson: So practicing local is really important for you to be able to understand a community well enough to do a great job and it means that you can then do a great job in another community because you know what tools it takes to understand and to listen. And practicing locally isn’t small or insignificant. And the reason I’m thinking about that is if you are a firm who only works in your state or in your city, you’re making an impact on your own community and that’s a really big deal. It doesn’t mean that because you’re not a globally known architecture firm, that they’re doing more or doing more impactful work than you. So practicing locally isn’t insignificant, it isn’t small, it isn’t unimportant.

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Grace Aaraj: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Design For Spatial Justice Podcast Series.

This is Grace Aaraj, your host signing off from Beirut, Lebanon, and Mary Anne Funk, our editor from Portland, Oregon. The music you hear in every episode is by Chicoco Radio—all the way from the waterfront settlements of Port Harcourt Nigeria.

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